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Lily Nellans competed for Des Moines Roosevelt High School In Iowa and holds the all-time record for major championship wins. She is the three-time winner of the MBA Extemp Round Robin and the Extemp Tournament of Champions (TOC). During her career she also won the NCFL National Championship and was a three-time finalist at the NSDA National Tournament. She’s a four time Iowa State Champion, won Extemp Central’s 2012 National Points Race, and she notched victories at Wake Forest, St.Marks, Florida Blue Key, The Glenbrooks, GMU Patriot Games, The Schwan’s Speech Spectacular and Harvard. She will be studying International Affairs at Western Kentucky University, where she will continue her extemp career.
Lily agreed to participate in a two part interview with Extemp Central to give her thoughts on extemporaneous speaking, her career, and the participation of women in high school extemp. Part one of her interview can be accessed here.
Of all the accomplishments in your career, what are you most proud of? Do any of your big wins stand out?
I’m most proud of winning MBA for the third time. I put a lot of pressure on myself to do it and a lot of people didn’t think it was possible. I worked harder than I ever had over winter break that year. I pushed myself even harder during the tournament because I knew that each round stood between me and history. I worked really hard and overcame a lot of emotional challenges to get that title, it was really a personal victory more than anything.
What is your opinion about the Extemp TOC? You won three times there, but the event never seems to draw more than 25% of the competitors that qualify. What steps do you think the TOC could take to improve participation?
I think that Extemp TOC is an amazing tournament. Extemp TOC received a lot of criticism leading up to the tournament this year, but if you look at the field all of this year’s top extempers were there. So, yes, the field is small, but it is extremely cut throat. I think Extemp TOC needs to make it a little bit more difficult to qualify so that qualifying has more prestige. If extempers thought, “Wow! I qualified to the TOC. I worked hard for this.It’s an honor just to compete there,” they would attend in droves. That’s how the debate TOC got its reputation. It would also help if they updated the tournament website/opened registration earlier.
Attending MBA is a nerve racking experience for many extempers. If any of our readers receives an invite next year, what tips would you give them on having a successful tournament?
Practice hard and file harder. You should give lots of practice speeches on tough/obscure questions. If you do that, giving speeches at MBA will feel like clockwork. Also, don’t rely on the internet. Using the internet takes up a lot of prep time and doesn’t give you easy access to deep analysis. File more than you ever have before MBA and read everything you file. If you’re confident you know your stuff you’ll be confident while giving speeches at MBA and you’ll have some killer cross-ex questions. In-between rounds and at night, relax and have fun! The experience of being at MBA is the reward for all of your hard work.
The NSDA National Tournament was a championship that managed to elude you over four years. Why do you think this was the case? Do you feel your style was not as well suited for the tournament or do you think other factors were at play?
Like I said earlier, I think luck plays a big role at NSDA’s. That being said, I would never blame my results on judges or a tournament. An extemper’s results are always their responsibility. Answering really general questions was never a strength of mine. Most of the questions at NSDA’s are really general. I tended to go for obscure or specific analysis that wasn’t always suited to NSDA judges. It seems to me like judges at NSDA want to hear arguments they’ve heard before on CNN. I don’t think giving that kind of analysis teaches the audience anything so I had a hard time getting over my principles and adapting.
If someone asked you how they could achieve as much success as you have on the circuit, what would be your advice to them?
The amount of success you have in extemp is directly related to how hard you work. No one is a born extemper, so it comes down to how many hours you’re willing to put in. My first piece of advice would be to give a practice speech every day and my second piece of advice would be to read at least one newspaper every day. One probably isn’t enough. At the height of the season I was filing 1,000 articles a week. You have to make a decision that you want to be successful in extemp and then make a commitment to the activity.
If you could make a rule change to extemporaneous speaking what would it be? Or do you think anything needs to be changed?
I would get rid of all of the experimental rounds in which the speeches students are giving aren’t really extemp speeches. Namely, I don’t think students should be judged on how well they can impersonate someone. Comments like “I don’t think Bill Gates would use sources, you had 9,” shouldn’t appear on ballots. I’m all for experimental questions, but the result should be a true extemp speech that follows extemp structure. Otherwise how are the students giving the speech or watching the round supposed to learn anything about extemp?
If you could have a mulligan and do one tournament or round all over again, which would you choose and why?
That’s easy, I’d like to re-do the final round of the 2011 GMU Patriot Games. I gave what I thought was a kick-butt speech. I was really proud of how well I’d handled an obscure triad and the crowd was laughing at all of my jokes. After my speech Rob Warchol kindly informed me I’d been pronouncing Indonesia wrong the whole speech AND I’d said the US was moving 250,000 troops to Australia instead of 2,500. I’ve never lived those mistakes down and I think the results might have been different if I hadn’t of made those mistakes
What advice would you give to a competitor that is nervous before the NSDA final round?
Relax and have fun! I let myself get nervous my sophomore year and all I wanted to do was finish my speech and get off of the stage.The next two years I just focused on enjoying the moment. The result was two speeches I’m really proud of and fourteen minutes I’ll never forget. They’ll tell you at sound and light check that once you’ve made the final round you’re already a winner. It sounds cliche, but its true. Plus, always remember the national championship has probably already been won before the final round. So really, it’s just a chance to show-off!
How would you rate this season in comparison with the 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 campaigns? Was it as successful as you hoped or was it slightly disappointing by your standards?
My goals going into my senior year were different then they had been the previous two years. I was worried I was getting burnt out on extemp. I never wanted to feel like I was just going through the motions. So my first semester I focused on doing PF, OO and DI. I had more success in those events than I had previously so that was really rewarding. My goal for extemp this season was just to break the major championship record, I made that happen, so I’m very pleased.
What do you feel were your unique strengths in extemporaneous speaking? What were your weaknesses? What is the biggest hurdle that you had to overcome to be a successful speaker?
I never viewed extemp as an IQ contest. I always viewed it as a communication event and I think that was my biggest strength. I understood why each part of the extemp structure is there in terms of persuasive value. As a result, I could maximize each part of my speech. I was also really good at crafting what Strong liked to call “memorable moments.” Every word and every sentence in each of my speeches had a purpose. It doesn’t matter how much you know if you can’t package your knowledge in a way that reaches the judge.
I think my biggest weakness was being reassuring to the judge. Some other speakers were really good at being likeable and making the judge comfortable. On the other hand, I always liked to take risks in my arguments, my sourcing and my humor. Sometimes I think judges thought I’d crossed a line or didn’t buy what I was saying.
The biggest hurdle I had to overcome to be a successful speaker was being female. People have no idea how much time Strong and I spent trying to figure out how I should wear my hair, how high my heels should be, what color suit I should wear, and what kind of makeup I should put on. We struggled to make people see me as authoritative, but not bitchy. My senior year people kept telling me my voice needed to be lower. But I’ve gone through puberty and my voice isn’t getting any deeper. Eventually we figured out that if I drank a glass of hot water before every round my voice would be a little bit deeper. The fact that I had to go to all of that trouble is ridiculous.
One of your strengths as a competitor was cross-examination. What CX tips would you give to extempers?
Be aggressive, but smile while you’re doing it. Too many extempers are scared of really going after a speaker, but if there are major holes in a speaker’s analysis point them out! As long as you aren’t a jerk about it judges will thank you. The best way to do this is to use lot’s of short-answer questions. If you give the speaker an open-ended question and they talk forever, that’s your mistake, not theirs.
To shift gears, your oratory this year drew attention to the lack of success of female competitors in forensic competitions. What prompted this advocacy?
My junior year at Harvard a younger girl came up to me and said, “I’m rooting for you. You have to win this for the ladies.” And I thought, wow, this is ridiculous, it’s the 21st century, I shouldn’t have to “win this for the ladies” the ladies should be able to win it for themselves.
There have been many reasons given as to why extemp has usually been a male dominated event. These range from where the best coaches are to lack of recruiting to the culture of the event and society. Why do you think more young women are not present in prep rooms and/or in the late final rounds of tournaments at nationals?
I think young women aren’t present in prep rooms because extemp is viewed as a “boy’s event.” Young women are directed towards oratory and interp. When young women do end up in the prep room it’s usually not a pleasant experience. Extemp is still a good ol’ boys club. All of the major competitors, judges and coaches are male. There’s something about being in a room full of teenage boys throwing things around, talking about girls and making jokes about video games that isn’t inviting. I mean, for example,the big competitors on the circuit this year morphed my complaints about sexism in the activity into a big joke. Chris McDonald, the coach at Eagan High School, noticed that I was sitting by myself in the prep room for TOC finals this year and came up and asked me if I sometimes felt out of place. The answer is yes. I’ve also heard numerous stories from young women about prep room interactions that border on sexual harassment. The bottom line, is the prep room can be a hostile environment.
Young women who decide to brave the prep room are then beaten down by judges. Our voices aren’t as pleasant and we don’t seem as credible so judges rank us lower than our male counterparts.When young women try to make themselves more credible by being more authoritative or assertive they’re often told they’re being too harsh. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told I need to be “softer.”
What can coaches do to encourage more female participation (and success) in extemporaneous speaking?
They can get ahold of Harry Strong and ask him for some tips! Strong prides himself on creating a safe place for young women and that’s exactly what Roosevelt Forensics was. We had more female extempers than male. I never really did figure out what Strong’s secret was, but I think it revolved around encouraging young women to be themselves. Coaches should start-off by directing young women towards extemp, even if they think it sounds scary. Sometimes 14 and 15 year old girls can be timid and lack the self-confidence to try an event as daunting as extemp. Boys that age tend to be more bull-headed. But if coaches make them try it instead of letting them hide behind DI I believe young women will start to fall in love with extemp. Conquering an event as hard as extemp is what gave me my self-confidence back after my awkward middle school years.
Then coaches need to embrace young women’s more feminine approach to extemp. I don’t want to essentialize women. Another woman’s approach might be different than mine. I was really emotional towards extemp, I cried after every tournament, good or bad. I needed a lot of heart-to-hearts with my coach. Strong embraced that and actually taught me how to channel that emotion into my speeches. He taught me how to use other people’s narratives and craft moving speeches. That did a lot for me. In short, coaches shouldn’t try to make young women something they’re not; men. If you look at any of the successful female extempers from the past 20 years, they’re all extremely confident speakers. I think coaches can build that confidence.
What are your future plans? Do you plan on maintaining a link with the high school circuit?
For the next four years, I’ll be studying international affairs at Western Kentucky University and competing on their national championship forensics team. In other words, bring on more extemp! I plan on coaching and judging on the high school circuit during my time in college. My resolution is to judge at least one tournament a year for the rest of my life. I hope to eventually be making the news extempers are speaking on. It’d be pretty poetic if 40 years from now an extemper is drawing a question on me.
When people look back several years from now on your career, what would you most like them to remember about you? What would you like your historical legacy to be in the event?
I’d like them to remember how much I love extemp. Sometimes people say extemp is an artificial construct, I don’t believe that. I believe it’s an artfully crafted form of persuasion. I love extemp for its structure and it’s unique communicative value. If I just loved current events I’d stay at home and read the Economist in bed. I want people to remember how hard that love inspired me to work. And I want them to remember my speeches as examples of what real extemp should look like. I never canned anything, I never made a source up and I never lied about analysis. Everything was extemporaneous and honest. I always tried to teach my audience something and engage them at the same time. The major championships are just an indicator of that. And of course I’d be remiss if I didn’t say, long live the weave!
Thank you again for taking the time to sit down and talk with us Lily.
Again, thank you!